Event Key Performance Indicators: Metrics To Measure Your Events – EventIcons Episode 124

(upbeat electronic music) – [Announcer] It’s Wednesday
at 5:00 PM eastern, so you know what that means. It’s time for another
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watch at www.event-icons.com. Now, without any further
delay, this is #EventIcons. – Hello ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to #EventIcons episode 124. Wow time is flying by and today
we have probably one of my favorite topics that I don’t know how we haven’t covered this yet. But as a business owner,
a nerd in general, and someone who loves to measure things we are talking today about one of my favorite topics which is event KPIs. And you might be wondering what is a KPI. Well KPI stands for key
performance indicator or you may have heard of
the term metrics before. We essentially are gonna be talking about how can you use numbers to manage your events and make them even better. I promise you our guest today is gonna drop some serious knowledge bombs ’cause literally this is
what he does for his life is put together amazing event metrics. So why don’t we jump right on
in to episode 124, here we go. All right today I am joined by the amazing Daniil Scherbakov, did I get it right? – Yeah, absolutely. – Awesome, we were betting if I was gonna get it right or not. But thank God for phonetics,
but Daniil is seriously awesome when it comes to event
metrics and we had a great conversation which led to
this concept of this episode. And he actually has an amazing
product called Radario, R-A-D-A-R-I-O based in Moscow, right? – St. Petersburg, St. Petersburg. – I always forget the two. – You know it’s like, kind
of by the start of it. But when I say in the United States that I’m from the south states, people keep thinking
that I’m from Florida. (laughter) – I love it, I love it. No, definitely not Florida for sure. But Radario is an awesome
platform that’s designed for you to measure your
events and get those metrics. And we’re gonna talk a lot
about that a little bit later. What kind of metrics
should you be managing? What sort of KPIs? All that sort of stuff, but you know, we gotta jump right into this ’cause there’s too much
to cover right now. So gotta welcome to the show everyone, big round of applause, Daniil Sherkapov. (Daniel clapping) Sher-ba-kov, oh my gosh
I’m gonna get it right. Daniil, thank you much
for meeting us today. – Thank you, thank you so much and I’m really glad to be here. It is, you know, it’s presently
12:00 am in St. Petersburg and in Moscow as well and I’m
all wake up and I’m, you know, I’m really glad to be here. – I know, you can see the
beautiful city behind you is obviously blooming right now. (Daniil laughs) And we were having a talk
offline, buy the way, if you didn’t know this
is a video podcast. If you’re only seeing the audio version of this you’re missing out. But we had a joke that Daniil actually doesn’t know what city is behind him. (Daniil laughs) So if you’re watching this
recording and you can figure out what city is behind
Daniil and Tweet it to us, put it in the Facebook group,
all that sort of stuff, we will give you a free, some
free swag from #EventIcons. So that’s our bet is
to figure out what city is behind you, ’cause I
couldn’t figure it out. So Daniil, let’s jump right
in, tell everybody your story. What kinda got you to where you are today in becoming kind of the God
of event metrics and KPIs? – (laughing) Thank you so much. So you know I’m kind of a start-up guy, a geek as well, you know,
and I’m in the start-up industry for like over five years. Like it’s like Radario is not the first project that I am taking part in. Actually, before actually I
took part in a great project in virtual reality like,
you know, to be honest, like let’s see, looking
back into my past I can say that I was always being into
the entertainment industry. Like before it was virtually
reality and we came one of the biggest virtually reality
developers in terms of games. Right now I am taking my intent, you know, like we are really rocking
different industries by using the, helping
the people to use KPIs and all that stuff, you know? So like the last two years
I’m in the, mostly in the, not like mostly, I’m only
the entertainment industry. And I really love it. You know like the things
that I’m learning the most in the entertainment industry, this is like blue ocean, like, you know? All of the tactics that
are common, let’s say, in the game development,
or let’s say I don’t know in the digital advertisement,
like, you know? They are really uncommon in
the entertainment industry. People are still sending
the bulk mailings, you know? They don’t know how to use,
like, apparently to email Marx and Company, you know
like, email Marx and Company? That’s outdated in the
digital world, but, you know. Like, not even those, so like, you know. I feel myself like a
pioneer and I’m honestly passionate about being able
to transform this industry. Like, you know, to be able
to disrupt this industry. This is pretty much where I like. I’m a business development
guy, I’m not a developer. But you know, I’m a huge
geek, I’m passionate about having an opportunity, let’s
say, you know, on the common, my niece, she’ll say,
is that a sales product? My mission is, let’s
say, to help the people to find events that they are most likely to be interested in, like, you know? Get rid of the spam, get
rid of all of this stuff. Like make the advertisement targeted and interesting for those who receive it. – I love it, I think we
definitely need that more and I think you brought
up a really good point that there’s so much
in the events industry and so much opportunity because, you know, we’re a little archaic in some ways. And we talk about this all the time, that there’s things like,
we don’t have a lot of, you know, barriers to
entry into our industry. So yeah, how can we
take from other places? And I think, is this
business development portion, I think you’re gonna find interesting and for those who don’t do a
little business development I think it’s probably
one of the industries that is most highly
metricized, is that a word? Metricized, metricated,
like a make up word? – (laughing) I got it, I got it. – Like it has so many metrics. The number of people you call, how many people you’re connected with, how many email you send, things like that. – But people are still
ignoring these metrics. You know, surprisingly. – Exactly, exactly,
and so how can we bring a little bit of metrics into
the events industry, then? Which I think is gonna be cool. So before we jump into that, if you weren’t in the events industry and you weren’t doing business
development for Radario, what would you be doing instead? – You know I think I consider myself probably as an analytics guy. You know, like, honestly I love numbers. You know, like, numbers
is not boring, you know? Being an analyst is not
like being an accountant. Accountants are great
people, I’m not saying, but for me honestly it’s boring. But let’s say digging and
diving deep into the numbers is interesting because
you know you might find something interesting about the audience that you have never thought before. Like, here’s an interesting thing think not connected to
the events necessarily about all about the big
date and all that stuff. Let’s say on average in the Unites States people purchase orange
cars mostly on Mondays. Like, somehow, somehow, you know? – It’s like, have you seen Freakonomics or read Freakonomics, the book? – Yeah, yeah, okay. – It’s the weirdest stuff (laughs) But it all can be told in numbers which I think is really,
really interesting. And I think we were having
that conversation beforehand that a lot of planners
are more like touchy feely and especially when things
are going good, right? Like metrics aren’t this
thing that you’re like, oh yeah, my event sold
out and make a great – – Just don’t care about it. – Let’s look into, like, the analytics of where people are going, right? Usually we’re like, everything’s great, let’s just keep doing the same thing. But I think that the numbers and the ideas that we generate during this
call or during this show will definitely give people a good idea of what to look out for. So let’s really quickly kind of define this idea of metrics
really, really quickly. You know, at what point,
let’s start with this. Do you think at some point
you can get too nitty gritty when it comes to measuring
something, period? Like, is there such thing
as too many metrics? What is your kind of thought
process around how many metrics or numbers someone
should be looking at? – You know, you’re absolutely
right on the point of, let’s say, like, having to
many metrics is an opposite of not having metrics at all, you know? Like when you decided what kind of metrics you need to collect, you first thing that you need to do is to set goals. Let’s say, what are you trying to achieve by measuring specific metrics? Like, do you want to
increase event attendance? Or do you want to measure
how many university attendees do we have
regularly at your events? You know, setting goals will prevent you of having too many metrics. And also let’s say shortly right after you start measuring
metrics you will be able to understand what kind
of metrics are useless. You know, like there, no, this
is not like a constant thing. There is no wrong and right answers. You need to constantly
work with the audience, you need to constantly
measure the metrics. This is how you gain experience. – Interesting, so you know,
do you think that the metrics that someone chooses the first time will be the metrics that they use for, that’s a leading question. Of course, like, you’re
always gonna be constantly evolving what metrics
you’re gonna be using, too. I keep like wanting to go to the question that’s gonna be like the
biggest question here. (Daniil laughs) I’ll like avoid it and work around it. But we’ll get into what
everyone’s probably asking. What metrics should I be measuring? What sort of things should I be measuring? But I think that’s really
important for like, that you make as a good point, that there is such thing
as too many metrics. Do you think it’s important to
pick simply in the beginning? Or pick and lots and whittle
down to a small amount? Like, should you start with
a couple and start small and expand or should you
start big and go backwards? What’s your kinda thought process? – You know, from my
point of view the things that you need to do is
probably to, at first, to settle on only the main metrics. Actually, you know, I will tell you more about them lately because
actually I did my homework and prepared so let’s say,
like, the most important metrics that I think will
be, could apply to any kind of events, you know, like
they are really to understand and moreover they’re not
so hard to calculate. You now, like, like, second
grade math, you know, like, math, you just need to divide something to sum something, you know, that’s all. You know, like, people,
like, a lot of people consider the, like, analytics,
or the, like, metrics, you, like, you need to do a lot of math and like you need to spend
hours in front of computer. It’s not, no, like generous
and simplicity, you know. And this is like a critical thing. The most, like, the people
can see it has a hard thing but it is not, you just need to study. Like, you need to overcome yourself and then actually start measuring metrics. Like, there is no big deal of that. – Do you think that, in what you’ve seen, obviously you work with
a lot of event planners, meeting planners, today,
what do you think, like, do you find that most people at least have some sort of metric of measuring? Or do you find most people have nothing that they’re measuring? – You know, it’s really interesting, it’s a really complicated question. I will explain you why. The thing is, let’s say, the event industry is not heterogeneous. What do I mean by that
is like, there are like enterprise level event
organizers, like I don’t know, like MBE Teams, like I don’t know, like, nation wide tax missions
and all that stuff. These guys got badges, you know. When you got badges you
could afford anything. You know, like, any kind of
enterprise level software, you know, you could even let’s
say hire some kind of guys to develop something that you need to. Like let’s say like one week
ago, as we actually discussed before the show, I get back from Dallas and I was at a conference that was only for the enterprise level sports companies. And I actually went to all of the lectures and you know it was, they
were really great, honestly. (muffled speaking) But the thing is I’ll say, these guys are more than
aware what they need and they actually execute
on all of the things which is our company is
actually offering already. Mainly because that actually, you know, they could afford let’s say
paying 10 or even 100 times more than actually our essential cause. And you know this is like some kind of different level of companies. And speaking of the small
meeting businesses, like, you might not realize this,
they’re totally different. No, like, I don’t want
to promote that right now but I just would like to
give you an explanation why we started Radario. – Absolutely. – The idea let’s say we somehow found out that not even in the Russian market but also in the United States market there are no analytics
and marketing solutions, especially for the event industry for the small and medium segment. You know, this is why
we started the company. You know, somehow there
are lots of enterprise to say a grade but you know,
you just couldn’t afford paying a couple thousand
of dollars a month. You know, like, for some events it’s the budget of the whole event. Like, you know? – Yeah, absolutely, and
I think that you bring up a really good point, that I
think you talked about like the math and it doesn’t
have to be complicated. But also at the same time
you hit on the fact that like this doesn’t have to be
expensive to figure this out. Like, a lot of people
think when it comes, like, serving their events, oh my
gosh, I have to bring in, like, a survey company and a
third company this and do, you know, you know, all
this, like, complicated stuff but it can be really simple. So you know obviously
again, like, at Event Icons we’re not all about promoting people but I think your platform’s
really, really cool. But talking more so about,
like, what you’ve seen inside tools people
might already be using, what sort of, I always keep going back to what sort of metrics
but what sort of places should people go look
to find this information maybe in tools they’re already using? For example, like, the
registration software? Maybe their accounting software? Where should people be kinda going to look without having to adopt an
analytics platform of its own? – You know this is kind
of a tricky question. Let’s use a business demo from a guy and let’s see from my perspective. The funny thing is that people not only not measure metrics because,
you know, they don’t want to, but also because, you
know, they are not aware that they could measure them. If you’re not seeing that
you could do something you won’t do it and the
idea is that, let’s say, speaking of the team set platforms
or registration software, you know, people just, you know, satisfy with the amount of
data that this provides. But you know it does not
equal the list systems, the list systems provide all of the data. You know, this is kind of,
this is a kind of thing. So let’s see, people might be using Excel for the attendance management, you know? Just like, really boring,
like, time consuming stuff to download and upload,
like, but you know, these are the things that
they could do right now and the problem with this is the main problem of the industry. Because let’s say the
industry is like, you know, it’s getting more open
to certain companies but from my point of view,
let’s say the ticket companies, like let’s say you know
it’s a basis of the whole event industry because
you need to buy tickets, you need to gain revenue,
not only from sponsors but from ticket sales. I’m not so open to subparties
and I’m not so open to shares that data to be
able to measure metrics. And at the very same
time they are really tied in their engineering resources. So they are not able to
create a really powerful analytics and marketing
tools on their own. So like this is some
kind of a problem thing. But you know let’s say
once we started our company like we see that it is
changing, not because of us obviously but you know partly
we were in the right place the right time, but I
have spoken to many event organizers, to many
let’s say our competitors and clients and that stuff,
and you know, they told me, let’s say, about five years
ago they were nothing. Even if you wanted to, they were nothing. People only care about and
think about the privacy, you know, like they don’t want
to share data with anybody. But now it’s changing. – Totally and I think you
bring up a really good point that, like, now people are
a little bit more aware that they need to do this. But I guess the question
we’ll spend a lot of time on today is, how can they do this? So my next question kinda
is, what would you say to the planner who says, I
already have so much on my plate I don’t have time to
tack on the word analyst to the end of my, you know,
my job description, right? Like, you know, what would
be your recommendation for someone who’s too
busy to take this on? – My main recommendation is
that if you sell out your event let’s say from event to event
you sell out those tickets, it doesn’t mean that you are
successful event organizer. It might be shocking for the first time but at the very same time, let’s say, this is probably the simplest example. Probably the cost of
attending this tech innovation is higher than the revenue from them. – What did, define what what means, like, cost of revenue segmentation? – Sure, so like the
cost of user acquisition it’s let’s say if you
are user, for instance, digital advertisement like
on Facebook, somewhere else. So let’s say, how much should you spend to acquire users that will buy a ticket? Comparing to how, what
is the ticket price? So let’s say you sell lots,
you sell out of the tickets, but you actually do not
earn any kind of money. So it’s like this is
kind of a tricky thing. So, you know, it’s, you
know, I can’t imagine how passionate the event organizers find, probably this is the other
thing that, you know, event organizers are artists,
I’m almost creator, you know? They do not want to spend so much time on analytics because they want to create, they want to inspire people. And you know probably the
main goal of these podcasts is not to, like let’s say,
it’s also about explaining metrics but also explain that
it is easy to measure them. You know, it’s affordable to anybody. You know, you just need
to start and it will be positively effect on your
events, I guarantee it. You now, here is an interesting thing by Government Business Tribune. And the thing is
applicable to any industry. – Absolutely. – Returning, retaining your customer, is seven times cheaper
than to find a new one. Just think about it. Like, you know? Being able to measure the analytics, being able to turn
targeted to your customers, you know, will save you a ton of money and will save you a ton of time. You know, it’s like priceless. – Mmhmm, interesting. So do you think it’s wise,
you know, for, since planners are more creative like you’re saying, do you think it’s wise
for them to then bring someone on their team
that is more analytical? Would you recommend that? – It depends on the budget, honestly. Let’s say, first of all
depends on the budget and the second thing it
depends not on the analytics system but it depends
on the ticketing system. I give you, let’s say, an example. Without naming names,
without giving you the names of the companies, like not
to promote and sell them, let’s say not to shame
them, just to understand you better what I’m saying about. There is a ticketing platform
that you need to spend two hours to connect
the system to a C-RAM. It was even hard for me as a tech guy. And you could imagine how hard it is to the people who
actually face this problem for the first time and probably
this is another problem why people keep skipping
on the analytics side. You know, like, I’m still out
of tickets, I’m cash positive, and you know it’s so hard, so you know, I will do it some other day. Like, you know? – Procrastination. – Yeah, absolutely, you know, it is. – Awesome (laughs), I definitely think we all get into that procrastination mode. – It’s normal, it’s normal,
but you know, actually, you know, with
procrastination you will spend more time than you need, like, it’s like. – That’s true, it’s very true. Getting a lot of really good
questions in from everyone. So you’re kind of
recommendation is obviously look at the budget but
if you can afford it maybe bringing someone in analytically to start thinking about this. But at the same time if
you can figure it out it’s maybe, you gotta probably
make it a priority, right? – You know actually if you
will spend a bit of effort and figure out by yourselves, this is kind of start-up approach. Before hiring somebody, just to better understand
whether you need to. Because you know, when you,
there are actually, really, from my point of view
the really great analysts in the event industry,
especially in the small and medium business
sector are really rare. You know, like, and it is
better for you, you know, it’s really easy to teach
the analytics, what you will, you know, there’s like
industry specific analytics. You know, it is better
for you to, let’s say, spend, I don’t know,
like one week, you know, not more, like, and to understand
what you need to measure then hire a guy and
explain him your goals. And then you’re ready to go. I think, you know, this
is the best scenario that I could imagine. – I think you bring up
a good point too, like, a lot of times I think it’s
a general hiring tip as well, I mean, like, a lot of
times we hire someone because we don’t know how to do it. But sometimes that can be really dangerous if you’re a smaller team and you can’t afford to
make mistakes, right? So instead, learn it
yourself to the point where, hey, I understand it and
I can have a good, fluent conversation, I know what I need. And then hand it off to someone. Because then that way,
too, you’ll also know you’re not getting the wool
pulled over your eyes, right? Okay, let’s see here, oh my
gosh, so many good questions. I wanna jump into, we got a lot of time, and I want to start
jumping potential metrics. So I think everyone understands
basic metrics, right? Like, revenue that came from the event, how much it cost to put on the event, how much profit you maybe made, maybe number of ticket sales/attendees that you’re gonna have, and… I’m trying to go over all the obvious ones so I can data dump all
the easy ones, right? So those are all obviously easy metrics for you to get and you probably
know where to get them. From your ticketing platform, from your Excel spreadsheet,
your accounting software. However, there are probably
unlimited amount of KPIs which is, I’m hoping we can fill them with as many as possible so
you can see the possibilities but as we discussed earlier
obviously pick the easy ones and the simple ones first, right? So with that being said, with
some basic ones out of the way let’s just kind of, I
want to do a ratifier. I know I know a ton of metrics too so I would love to share some of them too but maybe Daniil if you wanna
go share one KPI or metric and how, what it is, what it means, and maybe where can people
find this information or how can they simply
calculate it or how do they get to the point where they
know what that metric is? So I’ll let you kick it
off with the first one. – I’m ready to go. You know, the only thing
that I would like to know, the picture, you know,
the metrics like revenue, tickets sold, and all that
stuff, I would like to be honest with you, probably
I’m kind of straightforward. Probably because I’m
Russian, I don’t know. (laughter) But I think that, let’s say, in the long term they’re useless. You know, ’cause they do not show you any kind of insights,
like, you know, like, did your revenue increase? Like hooray, great, but is this metric, doesn’t show you why it was increased. Was it because of actually, you
know, you’re more efficient? Or was it because you spend
money on the advertisement? You know, like, this is kind of thing. – Or you could have like a lot of revenue but then spend way more money,
end up losing more money. Right, like, there’s
that, like, vanity metric, we call that, like, the vanity idea that it’s all for show and it looks pretty and everyone loves to talk about it but does it actually mean anything, right? – Yeah, so speaking of metrics. You know, let’s start from
my favorite one, probably. And actually the ones that
actually people are keeping, a lot of event organizers are actually ID’ed off our platform, you know? They wasn’t even aware of this metrics. It’s like the value of your attendees. Like really simple, what does it mean? It means, let’s say, how much money that in the real year rate, so your event during his lifetime? By lifetime I mean, let’s say, on average. Like here is an interesting insight fact, on average, new attendee attends events for one and a half year. And visiting five, eight and a half events and spending on average close
to $800.00 on the events. It’s like an industry average. It doesn’t mean that all of
them are spending so much but here is an idea and in that case it means that lifetime value
of this attendee is $800.00. And important also means, here
we go into the next metric. It’s the cost that we – – Before we go on now, wait, real quick, kinda, how you got, how
did you get to that $800.00 number like what was the
kinda formula that you used to get to the lifetime value of $800.00? So you said for example
they go to on average one and a half conferences or so? – No, I say, actually I did my homework for our block and actually
this is, I found research, actually the researchers
concluded that on average attendees, like new
attendees, became like loyal, for instance, for one and a half year. And during this one and a half years they visit eight and a half events and spending close to $800.00 lifetime. – Okay, cool, so maybe then
for, so I’m guessing you base, you take the, for lifetime
value it’s the number of events they attend for you, right, ’cause it’s personal to your brand. – Absolutely, absolutely,
of course, of course. – And then you multiple
that by how much they spend to go to your event, right? So let’s say it’s $800.00
to attend an event. One and a half times, that’s
$1200.00 lifetime value? Did I do that math right? So 1.5 times the $800.00 they
would spend at each event? – Well you know it that
case it means, let’s say, if they attended to eight,
let’s say, to eight events. Let’s say and their
lifetime value is $800.00 that means, let’s say, each
event your rate is $100.00. $100.00, and also it shows you, let’s say, keeping this in mind the average. You know, this is like industry average, but keeping in mind your
average of lifetime, like, lifetime of your user, value of your user. You will be able to understand
how much money you could spend on advertisement to
attract the user to an event. So for instance if the
lifetime of a user, let’s say, is, I don’t know, like
$100.00, you couldn’t spend more than, I don’t know, like
$50.00 to acquire a user. Why I say $50.00 instead of $100.00 because this is an
average, you know, like. And let’s say based on my experience the average cost user
acquisition should be twice less than actually the value, the lifetime value of the user. – Well I think that probably
brings you into, so, you talk a little bit
about the lifetime value, how much money on average
you’ll be bringing in over the lifetime of that customer. And then you talked a little
bit like about the cost for acquisition or the
cost to get that customer a little bit earlier, right? Which, let me know if I
get this formula right, basically you kinda average out the, you add together all the costs it costs for you to get the number of customers, divide it by the number
of customers that you have and that kinda gives
you an average, correct? – Absolutely, absolutely. Really simple math, like
second grade, as I told you. – (laughs) Super is, super easy. I think it’s people wonder, like, well how many people have
come, all this and that. You know obviously you can
figure that out as you go along. And by the way, just so everyone’s aware, these aren’t like metrics
that Daniil’s made up. These are really common
in the marketing industry. And so if you Google things
like lifetime value of customer or cost per acquisition
or cost per customer, you’ll find all these formulas
really, really easily. And we’ll try to link to
as many of them down below, that examples of these,
maybe if our podcasting team as you’re hearing these metrics if you guys can just plug
in articles I explain that would be awesome. So then you started leading into, I think, a really interesting metric which is, you’re talking about lifetime
value into cost per customer, and then kinda the, how many,
the metrics of multiples on top of that that you
should be making back. Kinda the profit margin, it sounds like, per customer, right, and you were saying – – Absolutely. – For you two times but maybe
someone who has a really high ticket sales, say
it’s $5,000.00 tickets and it’s 99% profit margin for them because the ticket only cost
$1.00 to print, whatever it is. You know, your profit
margins are a lot higher so I think for my metric
that I would share is, your profit margin per customer as well. Not necessarily, you
don’t have to look at it as like a whole, like your
whole cost of your event and then that sort of thing. Which you can do as well, if you want to. If you want to find, you know, oh, okay, we have 1,000 attendees,
we’re spending $100,000.00, it costs us $50,000.00
to have 1,000 attendees. You can kinda know, $50.00 per attendee, $50.oo for profit for each attendee. You can kinda figure out
these longer term things. And then this is where it gets, I’m sorry, I’m like probably totally jumping ahead. This is where it gets like
really nerdy and exciting. – You know, I’m totally okay, you know, I love professional
people, I’m also passionate in the matter as I know
you are so I know it’s like music to my ears, to be honest. Not because I don’t like
speaking but, you know, like, I am totally okay with it. – Absolutely, and what’s
cool is that you can take that profit margin for each attendee and then multiply it
by the lifetime value. And you have the lifetime
profit of each attendee too which is really, really cool. Because then that’s where
you can go back to cost per acquisition if you know
you’re making, you know, $50.00 off of each attendee. They go to one and a half events, $75.00, you know you probably shouldn’t
be spending, you know – – Lower than ticket. – Yeah as low as possible,
though, I mean like, 35, $40.00 or something
like that per attendee. Otherwise you’re gonna be
canceling out your profit. So anyways I get really
nerdy with these, uh, metrics for sure, so let’s
jump in the next one, Daniil. So we have cost of lifetime value, cost per acquisition, maybe
profit margin per as well, what other sort of metrics
are your favorites? – You know, let’s speak about, let’s say, the reason why people are creating events, about attendees, and there
are two main metrics, at least from my point of view. The first one is retention rate. This actually, this metric is
also like not a holy grail. It also, as I mentioned
before, it came from the marketing industry
and the main idea is, as I was mention before,
it is seven times cheaper to retain attendees
than to find a new one. And if you will be able
to measure, let’s say, the rate of university
students becoming attendees, you will be able, let’s say, to see, from my point of view
the universal return rate is some kind of health
monitor of the event. It does not apply for all of the events. I will explain, let’s say if
you have events, let’s say, in each season, like
it’s only one time event, it won’t show you anything
’cause all of that in this will be new but if
you have a recurring events like annual events, I don’t
know, like weekly events, being able to, you know, it’s
a type of community thing. Being able to measure
how many people return you know you will be able just to like, it is better to have
more returning attendees than to have more new attendees. And you now even because we
just mentioned, you know, it is very easy to return a customer when he is already purchasing a ticket than to find a new one. Okay, also obvious, how
you could calculate it. You know, this is probably the thing where analytics worked for my help previous. You can do it in Excel but it is some kind of a time consuming thing, you know. You need to download all
things and Excel spreadsheets and make sure many of
them match all of that, and these emails, you know,
this is kind of a boring step. But probably this is
one of the main metrics that could show you the
health of your events. If I could say, you know,
in Russian I could say it but I’m not sure, does it
sound correct in English? – I think so, I think so, I
think it definitely makes sense. I mean, it’s really,
really important for sure. So I’ve also heard that
rate, retention rate, also be described as churn rate? – Absolutely, you know,
churn rate is a some kind of different thing, a
churn rate is all about, the churn is, let’s
say, how many attendees that first purchased disappeared? So let’s say, how many
attendees was, let’s say, purchased one ticket and
then stopped purchasing. You know, from my point
of view this is like, this is kind of things
that say more metrics. You know, you could
start from just measuring the retention rate and universals
returning attendance ratio and then let’s say if you
need to better understand, let’s say, if you see
something, let’s say, a lot of people showing
up for the first time and then actually never
showed up again, you probably, I would want to stop and
measure the churn rate. But you know, as a general
rule I think you could start out by the metrics
that I mentioned before. – Well that’s interesting. I think the retention rate
is really important, too, because I think the question it raises too is that if you have people
coming, they buy one ticket to your conference and
then never come back the question is obviously, when
you explain it that simply, is why didn’t they come back? And I think this is a great example of how a number metric,
yeah, you’re gonna, you wanna make it go lower or higher but it also shapes the
conversations you have in your planning meetings and also I think to kind of step this up
to the next advanced level is that you can take the
people who are, you know, for example if you’re
measuring how often people are buying tickets you can
set up some automation that, for example, someone who
only buys one ticket, doesn’t come back the
next year and you know that they didn’t become
an attendee the next year, you send them – – Ask them for some feedback, you know? – Yeah, why didn’t you come back, right? And, oh my gosh, that’s
such better feedback than, you know what, I
felt like the couches were uncomfortable in the general session. (laughs) You know, it can
be like, the person says, you know what, you guys
moved the date from September to October,
October my busy season, I can’t make it anymore. And if you find that 50%
of your attendees say that, oh man, that gives you a
really, really good conversation around dates and what to pick, so. Alright, let’s go back into
some more metrics that you like. So Daniil what other sort of
metrics are your favorites? – You know, it’s a funny thing to say, all of the metrics, you
know, you could Google them. So-and-so, let’s go in
the same, let’s follow the same direction I’m thinking about and the general market
metrics in conversation rate. You know I would like to
explain to the audience, let’s say, I would like to
explain to the audience. Let’s say, I’m saying the general metrics not because let’s say I do
not have specific metrics. I obviously have those but
let’s say without measuring these basic metrics you won’t be succeed with the specific ones. And so let’s create, let’s
say, some kind of abasement of your analytics or
marketing, I don’t know, like understanding and then
actually go to the next level to the specific metrics, you know. It is very important to
understand, you know. So you couldn’t say, you
couldn’t jump over this stage. You just need to understand
the basic metrics. And then you will be able to figure out what kind of specific
dashboards or metrics you need to create
specific for your events. So let’s back to the conversation rate. You know that like also, you know, I have said the basic probably,
you know, we could count how much time I say basic
during this podcast (laughs). – That’ll be a metric in
itself right there (laughs). – Yeah, so like it’s basic, you know, it shows the number of times of your site, of your ticketing platform,
have made a purchase or other targeted action. What do I mean by target actions? For instance, follow you on Twitter or like, say, like you on Facebook. Like, you know? This is conversation ratio
of, number of site visits who performed any targeted
actions and actually to the total number of
visitors, you know like, it’s really simple, you
will be able to calculate. Like let’s say how many
people purchased a ticket divided by how many visitors do we have. And as a general rule
like industry average is somewhere around 1%, let’s
say, for all 100 visitors at least one person will buy. And let’s say the funny
thing about all of that, let’s say, if you have
never done such kind of optimization of advertisement,
what I mean by that like creating text,
targeting, you can increase the conversation rate by five times. You know like it’s really
easy, you know like. The advertisement online
is a constant, you know. You are constantly like, it is a constant. Once you set up let’s say an
app, you need to measure it. You need to measure the text, like, the same thing as with the events. The thing is let’s say
the conversation rate. Since more and more people
are purchasing tickets online. Is it a general or my metric? And being able to measure
it will give you an idea let’s say how could you
improve your online ads or your online efforts, what is going on? And all that stuff. It’s really important, it’s really basic, and probably let’s say if
you will ask me to leave the most general metric
that we can discuss I will say that conversation
rate is the most general one. – Cool, I love it. Oh my gosh, so many questions coming in. We’ll come back to that
question in just a second. So I think the next
question, oh by the way before I get in that, we’ve
obviously talked about how there’s a lot of
these marketing metrics or metrics that you can
find from other businesses. Again we talked about like
talking from other places, bringing it in, just Google
things like top marketing metrics, top sales metrics,
things like that on Google. You’ll find a ton of articles
that list a lot of these out, just take them, don’t reinvent the wheel. I mean again none of
these are made up things that we’re just making
up on the air right now. So that’s one thing I wanted
to say really really quickly. The next question I kinda
had that we’re getting from the audience is, they’re saying, hey, lifetime value, these
are good and obviously there’s some averages across the industry and things like that
but they wanna know like what is a good, insert
metric number here, right? What is a good lifetime value? What is a good conversion rate? What, do you have any sort of feedback for someone who’s trying to figure out what their metrics are and
where do they set the baseline? Where’s the goal, how
do they set those goals? That sort of stuff. – So let’s start from
the conversation rate. Industry average is 1%, if
you could do 2% or even three my congratulations, you are
an outstanding event marketer. I’m not joking, you’re like,
it’s all about the numbers. So this is like, two or
3% or even more is great. But you should understand
that you won’t get more than like 5%, let’s say, I have seen a lot of online campaigns of
the events and the highest conversation rate that
I have ever seen is 5%. So let’s say five people out
of 100 purchase a ticket. This is an outstanding result. Speaking of the lifetime value. You know, this is a tricky thing. This is, here is the thing,
it depends on the type of events do we have, if
you have annual events, let’s say obviously lifetime
value should be over a year. Or even better, like two years. But if you’re hosting weekly events having a lifetime really
of one year is outstanding. Like you know? Or at the very same time
if your hosting the same weekly events from week by week, you know, it’s really hard to define. If you’re having a
community, okay, let’s say (unintelligible) is also
great, but if you let’s say give a webinar trying to
teach people something obviously people why people should show up once again to your webinar like any other kind of educational stuff. Maybe because you are
sharing the same knowledge. So like the first thing, as
I mentioned, set your goals. Understand that our metrics are different from one type of events to another. Speaking to the new users
who are returning, great. From my point of view the best ratio is 70% of returning audience
and 30% of new audience. What I would like to highlight
this is my observation this is not a holy grail. It doesn’t mean that
what I said is general. Not based on my experience and you know speaking of the cost to
acquire a customer it also – – Depends on the person, right? How much ads are costing
at that point in time? Go ahead, go ahead. – You’re absolutely right, it
depends on the type of event. So for instance if
you’re creating lets say highly targeted specific
events that cost of acquiring a customer would be really high. If you don’t have your own database then you won’t be able to return anything. But if your favorite, I don’t know, like a festival of food, like
food festival in New York. Obviously the cost to acquire customer would be really small
but at the very same time the ticket to this event
would be also really cheap. You know, this is kind of a tricky thing to balance between cost
to acquire customer and actually the revenue shared. – Oh, very interesting. Okay so obviously yeah
it all depends I think, that’s one important thing
for people to know too when you’re doing your
metrics is start measuring it right away and then if you’re going up it’s just good too. Like sometimes people
look at it and I think we’ll get into my next metric
that I wanna talk about which is customer loyalty, people go like, well what’s a good customer loyalty score? And I was watching hubspot actually video and they were saying there’s
no such thing as a good score as long as it’s continually getting better you’re getting better
and I think that’s a very important thing to keep in
mind while you’re wondering what it should be. So speaking of customer loyalty,
we’re running out of time, we got a lot of good questions. How do you think the best way for people to measure the happiness and
loyalty of their attendees? – You know I think you’re
asking the right question. But the first question
that you should ask, how they should measure it. Lets say like what I mean like, what using what kind of tools? And no, I’m not going
to promote our software, not at all, the idea is that
let’s say you could measure it using different ways. You could measure it on
sight by people who attend asking them lets say like (unintelligible) and all that stuff. What I suggest and what
is based on my experience, you should gather feedback
from two main groups. The first group is newcomers, new goers. The people who attend,
let’s say, your first event. You could automate different
feedback of that event. The thing is when you are doing events, a lot of events a year, you
won’t some kind of mistakes and the event organizers
that go might notice. They will help you to improve your events. And also since you treat them individually it is more likely that
they will return again to your event or even
become your loyal customers. And the second group
that you should gather feedback from is basically
your most loyal audience. Those are some kind of I don’t know, this is some kind of
audience that spend not only a lot of money but a lot
of their time obviously time is even more valuable than money because you can’t get it back. And being able to gather that feedback, to understand what kind of
scenes they’re also looking for. Let’s say how can you,
it’s also very important. How could you measure? You know like say, I also
forgot the term like, if email MPS sees that
everyone is measuring, like, how does it name? – I think, like, you’re
talking about MPS score? – Yeah, absolutely, MPS, I
also forgot about this term. – Yeah, it’s okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, net promoter score,
I’ll let Daniil explain it. – The thing I think about
the net promoter score, you know, I’m not a fan
of the net promoter score. When I gather this emails I know, most of these email are
mainly from enterprises. You know like when your
sales send out, let’s say not like thousands, even
hundred of thousands of emails it is you know
you are not able to read all of the answers you know like. It is impossible, let’s face it. But let’s say if your targeted audience is who you engaging
feedback from is not more than couple of hundreds my recommendation is other questions. Has the best quality of sound
and even way more expensive wired headphone and also they
are waterproof, you know? And they cost somewhere of
like one and a half grand? Some kind of like that? Like one of the best
promoter price, value, rate, or things like that, wireless headphones, things to write down. – Definitely, I’m a huge
fan, I have the QC-35s which are the wireless version, love em. And then there’s the in ear version too but the neck band I kinda
got over really quickly. But I ended up giving my fiance and she absolutely loves them too. So definitely, if you think
Bose is kinda overrated, if you’re not using them,
definitely I think it’s one of the most commonly
shared things on our shows. Some sort of like Bose noise-canceling or non-noise canceling
headphones, so I love it. I had one last piece, resource
that I wanted to share that I think everyone would love. Since we’re talking analytics,
one of my new favorite softwares called DataBox,
it’s basically what’s called a dashboard website,
it creates dashboards. And there’s a lot of sites that do this. DataBox is doing it by getting
as many people to connect to it as possible and
essentially imagine all those metrics we talked about,
customer acquisition costs, your total revenue, all
those things like that, you can essentially put ’em up on your TV and have it live up there
and it’ll automatically update for you and you can
set up daily score cards that get sent out to your team and they see it right on their phone, where they’re on on metrics. Weekly score cards, we have
it set up to go into out select channel so the whole team sees it and we have discussions
about each metric each week. Huge and awesome, highly
recommend DataBox. It’s like $50.00 a
month, absolutely nothing for the fact that it
combines, and it’s cool too oh my gosh this is where it
gets really nerdy you can do custom formulas too for
example in order to discover customer acquisition
costs there’s not a lot of softwares that give
you that information. So we had to pull information
from our accounting software, our marketing
software, Facebook ads, LinkdIn ads, all the places
that we acquire customers and then create a formula
and you can just type that in and say pull this metric from this place, this metric from this place, this metric, divide that one by that
one, times it by that one, and boom it spits out a number, so cool. If you love analytics
DataBlocks is where it’s at, it’s really, really cool
especially if you run a company. So alright well that’s the whole episode, oh my gosh I could literally
talk about this forever. We need to get a chance to go into like, we got like eight or nine
metrics, there’s probably 100 we could have, we will
definitely have a further conversation in the Facebook group. But before we do that I
wanted to thank you Daniil so much for being on the show. This was so fantastic, so
insightful, and I think you blew a couple people’s minds (laughs). – Always welcome, my
pleasure, my pleasure. – Awesome, awesome, well
before you guys leave, stick around real quick, I
have a cool piece of news to share, I should’ve shared
this at the beginning. But exciting news, we’re
gonna be doing some live shows from events these next couple weeks. So you wanna listen up
really really quickly actually should pull up the show calendar so I can gie you the exact
dates that we are doing this. But if you don’t remember
about two years ago we did a show live from
Imex where we actually interviewed icons, we
literally did two hour long episode rapid fire and
you know all the people from all over the industry
coming in and talking. Really, really cool,
our number one watched episode of all times still to this day which is really really cool. And so you definitely are
not gonna wanna miss these. But back to back on August
15th we’re gonna be doing a live episode from Ilea
Live from the International Live Events Association Conference live. Ilea Live and will be live from Ilea Live. And that’s gonna be a
fantastic episode, so. We’ll be in Denver for that one. It’s gonna be really really
cool talking about that show and also about the global
event forum that’s going on as well simultaneously. And then the next week, I
mean you only have to wait a week for this to happen
again, the next week every single host from
Event Icons will be together in one place, in Salt Lake
City, for Connect Marketplace. This is such a big deal,
we are moving the episode from the 22nd to the 23rd. So normally it’s on Wednesday the 22nd, it’ll be on Wednesday the 23rd. And we’re gonna be doing a live episode featuring as many event
professionals as fast as we can in two hours and you’re
gonna get to see us all live together and it’s gonna be fantastic ’cause some of us haven’t even met before. So it’ll be like probably the most exciting episode to watch. So again that’s the 15th
of August for Ilea Live, episode 126, and then
episode 127 on the 23rd for Connect Marketplace, but don’t worry, we have one more episode
before then which is one of our most popular episodes which is Shit Event Planners say with Erin Kaufman. So not gonna wanna miss that one. We have a lot of exciting episodes, we’re all booked out
for the rest of the year and we’re already working on
2019 so it’s gonna be awesome. Alright so that’s about upcoming episodes, that was my big news, I’m so excited. And a good thing to keep in
mind, if you are watching this show we record this
every single Wednesday, 5:00 PM eastern, right here live on Zoom. This is the best place to watch the show because you get to directly
talk to the guests, you get to ask questions
as they’re coming in, you get to shape the
conversation the entire episode. Best place to sign up for
that is www.Event-Icons.com. We also do a behind the
scenes live on Facebook Live, however don’t bank on that
being live all the time. You might’ve noticed if you watched today Facebook Live was down
and didn’t even work so we couldn’t broadcast. So again the best place to
watch live Event-Icons.com, that’s where we’re gonna
be always broadcasting from but we do do some behind
the scenes on Facebook live. And then following Tuesday
we will post a recording of this with all the show
notes, the transcription, some captions in case you
wanna watch this during work and you don’t have audio, and
we will also be posting it on pocketcast, stitcher,
iTunes, wherever you watch podcasts we will be on. I think we’re gaining
to try to be on Spotify really soon as well so
stay tuned for that. And yeah again if you have
questions, you have ideas for our show we wanna hear from you. When you sign up at Event-Icons.com
you’ll get an invite to our Facebook group where
I’m sure Daniil will be living for the next week answering
all of your questions. So please feel free to come
and join us and ask questions, give us your ideas for topics, tell us who you wanna see on the show. We listen, I’m in there every day as well so I’d love to see you
guys all there again. Event-Icons.com, sign up,
you’ll get the Facebook invite and it’ll be awesome to see you there. So that’s this weeks episode,
that was a very long outro, I’m so sorry everyone but
there was a lot of cool news to share but again thank
you so much to Daniil again for being on the show, dropping
the KPIs and metrics talk. And we’ll see you guys all
next week for episode 125 of Shit Event Planners Say,
everybody have a fantastic day, we’ll see you next time. (upbeat music) – [Announcer] Thank you for joining us for another amazing
episode of #EventIcons. To catch the transcription and
all the resources mentioned head to www.Helloendless.com/blog. This week’s episode will
be posted and available by next Tuesday, also let
us know what you thought about this week’s episode. Share your biggest takeaway and join the social conversation. Sponsored by Little Bird Told Media. Just tag your post with #EventIcons. We’d love to hear from you. Thank you again for joining us. We’ll see you next
Wednesday at 5:00 PM eastern right here on #EventIcons. (soft music)

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